This topic contains 25 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Derek Amos 7 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #1271 Reply

    Chris 300
    Participant

    Hello All

    New to the forum and Myo Pure. 28 years old and still trying to get to terms with the consistancy and dedication it takes to get into shape i’m aiming for. Was hoping for some feedback from members and Dr J.

    Recently purchased Leucine, Creatine, Whey isolate, Hydrolyzed Whey isolate dextrose and maltodrextin to put in to pre / during and post workout shakes, sticking basically to the recipes on the myopure website. I have recently read on T-nation that post workout carbs are ineffective if simple carbohydrates to spike insulin have been consumed pre and during training. The implication of this being that 80 grams of dextrose and maltodextrin would not be necessary in the PWO shake.

    Anyone have any opinions on this ?

    Thanks

    Chris

    #8810 Reply

    Joey Rudisill
    Keymaster

    Yeah if you are having pre and peri workout shakes then a PWO shake would not be as important. If you are not though then it is still important. You will still want to have a real meal about an hour later though.

    What are you plans for workout nutrition anyway?

    #8807 Reply

    Dr J
    Keymaster

    Firstly I take PWO to mean peri-workout rather than post workout.

    I start drinking mine 15 to 20min before hand and continue during. At the moment, just under 2l water, leucine, protein, dextrose and maltodextrin.

    #8808 Reply

    Chris 300
    Participant

    Thanks for the replies…

    To Dave – Currently trying to get stronger / bulk, so i realize the excess calories contained in the dextrose and maltodextrin should not be a concern at the moment (would be more an issue if one was trying to cut), but it would be useful to know for future reference.
    To Dr J – Sorry i meant Post-Workout rather then Peri-workout. To explain I am currently making a shake (1.2L) with leucine protein dextrose and maltodextrin to drink pre (600ml) and sip during (600ml) the workout. I had been having a further shake which i was referring to as PWO about 30 mins post workout. My question referred to whether this post workout shake still required the dextrose and maltodextrin if the pre and during shakes already contained simple carbohydrates.

    From your and Dave’s post i am guessing that you guys don’t have a post workout shake whether it be with or without simple carbs, and focus more on pre and during workout nutrition ?

    #8809 Reply

    Joey Rudisill
    Keymaster

    I can have all three if I haven’t eaten much. I currently have a pre and post, mainly as I do not like drinking anything but water during my workout (personal choice). If you want just have a normal meal higher in carbs 30-45 minutes post workout.

    #8811 Reply

    Dr J
    Keymaster

    Every day I have a shake with our ACE WPI, 2 oranges and a slice of whole pineapple as a base.

    Depending on when I’ve been to the gym, and what my personal chef has prepared I either have this or a whole food meal about 1 hour after training.

    J

    #8812 Reply

    Joey Rudisill
    Keymaster

    and what my personal chef

    Really? It is not just your wife dressing up is it?

    #8813 Reply

    Derek Amos
    Participant

    Wife – Personal Chef, there is no difference !!!

    My own take on workout food is to take protein powder + leucine + creatine, sweetened lightly with Milo & sweetener as a sipped drink, starting 15 minutes before & to sip through the workout. So no super sugars at this stage. Taking the protein before & during is rated as one of the best ways to accelerate the workout growth cycle (something we specially need).

    Then, as immediately after the workout as possible, I start on the super sweetened protein drink dex’ & maltodex’ or a whole can of cherries plus a bit of dex/malto. Within an hour after I take some extra sugars only, like some sweet Cocopops bars or a couple of real sugar yoghurts. Plus as Dave said, a normal meal a couple of hours later, then sleep.

    This has worked for me for a few years now, so I just stick with it. With total exhaustion weight training of course. DA

    #8814 Reply

    Dr J
    Keymaster

    @dave wrote:

    and what my personal chef

    Really? It is not just your wife dressing up is it?

    😆 No dessert for me!

    #8815 Reply

    Chris 300
    Participant

    Thanks for the input guys, sorry for the late response, i have been busy throwing my step-dad out of a plane for his 60th Birthday..

    Interesting Derek – you obviously feel that the insulin spike from fast acting carbs (dex/malto) is more important after your workout then pre or during. This is different to what i was reading on T-nation and was why i was interested in peoples reasoning. I can’t argue that an insulin spike is not important post work out, however what would be your reasoning for it not being important pre and during to shuttle all the high quality proteins that you are taking to the muscles ?

    My impression from T-nation as to why the simple sugars were not necessary post workout from the t-nation website was that insulin was still elevated from ingesting the simple sugars pre and during training, although as i could not find much info on their reasoning i would welcome anyone who can explain this better. I think we are all in agreement that a meal 1 to 2 hours later is important.

    I guess i am wondering which is the most effective para workout supplementation;

    a) – 15 minutes = dextrose (20g) / Maltodextrin (20g) / Creatine (2.5g) / Leucine (2.5g) / Whey Isolate (10g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (10g) / dissolved in approx 500 ml
    O minutes and during workout = dextrose (20g) / Maltodextrin (20g) / Creatine (2.5g) / Leucine (2.5g) / Whey Isolate (10g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (10g) / dissolved in approx 500 ml
    + 30-60 minutes = Creatine (5g) / Leucine (5g) / Whey Isolate (20g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (20g) / dissolved in approx 300 ml

    b) – 15 minutes = dextrose (20g) / Maltodextrin (20g) / Creatine (2.5g) / Leucine (2.5g) / Whey Isolate (10g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (10g) / dissolved in approx 500 ml
    O minutes and during workout = dextrose (20g) / Maltodextrin (20g) / Creatine (2.5g) / Leucine (2.5g) / Whey Isolate (10g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (10g) / dissolved in approx 500 ml
    + 30-60 minutes = dextrose (20g) / Maltodextrin (20g) / Creatine (5g) / Leucine (5g) / Whey Isolate (20g) / Hydrolyzed Whey isolate (20g) / dissolved in approx 300 ml

    The only difference being the inclusion of a further 40 grams of simple sugars in the drink 30 to 60 minutes post workout. Are these necessary to help utilize the proteins in the drink or are they simply extra calories that could be added to your next meal ?

    Unfortunately i’m the personal chef in our house…. but i will just throw out there, Cleaner – Wife, there is no difference !

    #8816 Reply

    Joey Rudisill
    Keymaster

    I think you should worry less about this and just do what is easiest for you. You will get a much better result from training hard and having a Post WO shake than stressing over little things like this. If you were a pro athlete then it may be important to you, but as long as you are doing one or the other, eating enough food and training hard, smart and consistent then you will see your best results.

    #8817 Reply

    Derek Amos
    Participant

    Chris, Just to fill you in, if you are taking 40gm of protein (mine includes 5gm leucine), the Creatine is absorbed anyway without the sugar bomb by the Whey (should be Whey to do this, it is talked about on -Nation as well).
    My sugar input as soon as I can after the workout is to re-feed the used glycogen in the muscles. If I lay down for just half an hour or an hour or so, recovery to about normal feeling energy happens from this sugar to glycogen replenishment. This is the reason for sugars after my workout. It is especially noticable after a legs or a deadlift workout. DA

    #8818 Reply

    Chris 300
    Participant

    So to para-phrase;

    Dave – you would recommend ditching the pre and during workout nutrition and stick with a post workout shake
    Derek – you would recommend including the proteins, leucine and creatine pre and during and adding the simple sugars to the post work out, as a method of re-storing lost glycogen.

    Does this mean i have bought in to a supplement myth in thinking that creating an insulin spike is important ?

    Also i have copied and pasted the protocol recommended on T-nation in which post workout they only advise consuming GROW (a basic whey from my understanding) with all simple sugars being taken pre and during training, anyone have any insight why this may be this way.

    PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
    Workout – 60 = Alpha-GPC
    W – 40 = 1 FINiBAR
    W – 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
    W – 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
    During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
    During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
    W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
    W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

    PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
    Workout – 60 = Alpha-GPC
    W – 40 = 1 FINiBAR
    W – 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
    During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
    During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
    W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
    W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

    It may appear i am stressing over this, but that is honestly not the case. I also realize that huge amount of progress are made by consistency in overall diet and in the gym. My main motivation for posting these questions is i am interested in this area, and i find it hard to do something religiously (like making a shake with set grams of ingredients and drinking it every time i workout) without understanding the reasoning behind the same.

    #8819 Reply

    Joey Rudisill
    Keymaster

    Missed my point, just go train and eat well, take a pre or post or during or all three if you want. Just do whatever you find makes your training consistent and whatever makes you train hard.

    #8820 Reply

    Chris 300
    Participant

    Fair point…. Although as I said, curious about the science as much as anything else

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